Ambedkar will cease to be relevant the day you are free to marry anyone, says Prakash Ambedkar

Prakash Ambedkar, president of the Bharipa-Bahujan Mahasangh, a former member of Parliament and grandson of Dr BR Ambedkar, speaks on the importance of Dr BR Ambedkar even today. Excerpts from a conversation with Sujata Anandan in Mumbai:

Q. We hear Narendra Modi evoking Dr BR Ambedkar’s name almost every day in recent weeks. Why is he so important to the BJP?

A. Ha! As long as the RSS remains in the forefront of politics in the country, the importance and relevance of Dr Ambedkar can only grow. He stood against everything that the RSS propagates today. So it is not just Dr Ambedkar’s core followers or Hindu Dalits who find refuge in his ideals. In totality, he means a lot to the forward castes as well.

Q. How do you mean?

A. The Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes have certain constitutional guarantees. But what about the upper castes on whom the RSS lays claim? In the saffron scheme of things, even if you are a privileged caste, you have to live within the norms set for you. There is no room for individualism and personal liberty. You have to follow certain customs and traditions you might abhor. You are not free to eat whatever you wish or wear the clothes you want to. Sometimes you are not even free to follow the career you wish. Even the modern youth from the upper castes need to be liberated from their caste restrictions. Dr. Ambedkar stood for personal freedoms and liberty. So it is not just Dalits or backwards who look up to him. Even forwards find his social philosophies liberating.

Q. That is very interesting ...

A. Well, the RSS stands for the old hierarchical system. They want to take the nation backwards. If you accept their philosophy then you have to obey their dictum. If you don’t, you are an outcaste. For example, if you are18 or 21, as a girl or boy, shouldn’t you have the freedom to choose your own spouse, from whichever caste or religion? Look at what has been happening across parts of the country today ... The khaps, the Romeo squads. That is the RSS's core belief. Ambedkar is the anti-thesis of that.

Q. But the Constitution surely guaranteees those freedoms?

A. Yes. But it has not abolished castes. Dr Ambedkar stood For a casteless society. To the young in this country, castes are mattering less and less. But, in a light hearted vein, the day you are free to marry anyone at all, Dr Ambedkar will cease to be relevant. Until then he will continue to tower over even leaders like Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, Sardar Patel ... They did try to equalise society and polity but they could never go as far as Dr Ambedkar in calling for reforms in Hindu society.

Q. But castes are embedded into Hindu society...

A. Not for the young any more. They have grown up in modern times and the RSS's interpretation of Hinduism in rigid Vedic terms is suffocating them. It is not that they’d want to eschew castes or religions completely but I have noticed the young are leaning more towards the 'Sant-ic' interpretations of religion - Buddha, Mahavir, Surdas, Kabir, Ramdas, Basaweshawara, Tukaram, Namdeo Dynaneshwar and so on. They all raged against discrimination in the societies of their times. They came close to ridding Indian society of inequalities and discrimination, even as the caste system continued. That is what the young are looking for today. There are basically two ideologies operating in the country today. The RSS talks of cultural nationalism but there is no concept like cultural nationalism anywhere in the world. All it means is you infuse hatred in people against those who are different and you extend that hatred to people beyond the shores. Dr Ambedkar stood for geographical nationalism – the boundaries to which the Constitution extends. That makes every Indian equal to the other and that ideology is essentially what the youth are looking up to today. They see that despite being hounded and discriminated against by upper castes, Dr Ambedkar had no ill-will towards Hindus or towards any caste. That is how the people really want to be, not forever marred by hatred. That is also one reason why Dr Ambedkar is growing in relevance in these times.

Q. But what would you say about the rising Dalit assertion in recent times? They seem to be quite leaderless as of now...how are they organising themselves?

A. They dont need leaders. They are educated and well aware of their rights. But one reason wit the backward classes are able to organise themselves is because they have a strong sense of community. The other classes are somewhat scattered and vulnerable to various influences. Dalits today are clear headed about what drives them, what they want to achieve and refuse to be discriminated against as of old. So if they see an atrocity, they are quick to react and get community support. They do not need leaders per se. They have the writings and teachings of Dr Ambedkar before them. That is their kundal-kavach (body armour).

Q. So no one can displace Dr Ambedkar from their affections?

A. Not so long as the Indian society remains unequal. The day every body is free and equal to everybody else, Dr Ambedkar will disappear from the forefront. But if things continue the way they are, he can only grow in importance to all people in this country.